An interesting statement. Its unclear, in the English and Armenian articles, what this refers to exactly, and I can't find the original quote anywhere, or in the video. It seems he is referring to votes/support (not getting enough), or expecting the ARF to burden more than their share (1/8th) of the blame, or something else. What I do get from watching the video on Lragir is the sense that the ARF feels entitled - to be appreciated and revered by Armenians, to be considered free of any true or significant wrongdoing, because, after all, they are the ARF.
This is neither surprising, nor new. The ARF seems to think it is the center not only of the identity of all Armenians, but of the moral fiber of Armenians - that they are the great protectors of the Armenian people. Here is an example of an Asbarez article from May 8:
... The normalization of relations with Turkey is a historic moment []... The ARF, by reassuming its traditional, role takes center stage in this process. It becomes essentially the watchdog, the last line of defense, protecting both the future of the country and of all Armenians. As the only effective counterbalance to the present administration in Yerevan, the ARF has put the administration on notice that it will monitor the government’s actions, propose alternative strategies, and publicly evaluate the national security issues that may be adversely impacted by the direction the negotiations appear to be going.
Their claims to fame are in the past, and their actions in the present speak for themselves. As the coordinator of the Hnchagyan Party answered in a recent interview:
Q: The ARF Dashnaktsutyun, before the election, left the coalition and became opposition. What do you think, will the Dashnaktsutyun be able to be an alternative for the Armenian National Congress?
A: I think that it is even ridiculous to think about it. I don’t want to say anything bad about the ARF Dashnaktsutyun, but we all saw how the Dashnaktsutyun became opposition before each election. Though, it is strange, that after becoming opposition and leaving the coalition the Dashnaktsutyun is not ready to struggle against Serge Sargsyan’s actions and policy, which he leads in connection with Turkey. They have to prove that they are struggling for the future of Armenia. So, I think that today the political force, which would be able to compete with the HAK, lacks.
But somehow, the ARF still thinks it has the backing and foundation, the credibility, to make this statement:
“Dashnaktsutyun is ready and able to force the authorities to make immediate revisions in the current policy,” warned the statement. “Furthermore, it is ready to come to power and do that with its own responsibility.”
And this just a day after a pretty damning article in the New York Times about the ARF in Lebanon, and its decision to support Hezbollah in the upcoming elections in Lebanon. (Of course, the timing of the article itself is interesting, too). This decision raises so many questions, that if you don't agree its a problem on one level, you'll see its a problem on another. After all, the ARF is supposedly based in Armenia, right?
The fact is, they are not the party they once were.
They are not the true nor the worthy descendants of Mikaelyan, Zavaryan, and Zoryan.
18 comments:
One should research ARF history from an outside perspective. They have always formed an alliance with the powerful body that was willing to give the "Party" (not synonymous with Armenian people, no matter how much the ARF propaganda wishes to be otherwise) power. This was the case in 1908-1915 with the Young Turks, the 1916-1918 Transcaucasion government prior to Independence, the Western Powers after 1921, towards Hitler in WW2 in Europe, and ironically in the Middle East towards the victorious Allied powers against the independence movements in Lebanon and Syria, trying a rapprochement with the USSR after 1945 (per declassified CIA records), towards the Shah in Iran (and labeling non-ARF Armenians as communist in the Middle East) and later towards the Mullahs of Iran. And now they are funneling money from Iran and Lebanon (hizballah $$$) to Armenia which a portion is then send to the USA for them to be able to fund their activities and send Armenian Lebanese living in the USA to Lebanon to vote. Some estimate 4000 people are going, but according to the ARF they have about 2000, either way I would hate to be any of those individuals going to vote for the hezballah coalition, the IRS and the FBI is surely to investigate.
you found a hnchak to interview? impressive!!
Anonymous #2, reading some Armenian newspapers rather than making a stupid comment like that.
Of course, they would like to give nothing but get much or at least give very little for the much they want. The exact ideology of the ARF.
the REAL ARF is indeed in Hayastan
this ARABrf in EYrabanan is a joke and does not represent real Armenian issues of REAL ARF.
look at who they back, hezbolla mezbollah hammas mammas they back anything Eyrab terroristic related, thats because these so-called wanna be Armenians who claim themselves to be Armenian are not descendants of original ARF-D, they are Eyrabs who are brainwashed to believe that they are actually real authentic genuine Armenian. i LMFAO every time i hear a gor gor spyurk in glendale say...."oh I am LEBANESE-armenian"...thinking that we dont catch them purposely belittling the "Armenian" word behind "LEBANESE" these are the exact davajans i've been spewing about to everyone i can, these are the gor gor spyurks who want to trick this world to believe that we ARMENIANS are indeed some sort of semetic Eyrab, and not any kind of semetic Eyrab, but they want to trick the world that we are LEBANESE Eyrab, thats why they always promote themselves as "LEBANESE" 1st and then if they feel like it...."ehh i'm Armenian too"....i hope every gor gor spyurk is charged and convicted of supporting terrorism, it seems that is their calling as they consistantly send money to ARABS and their GAYzbollah instead of wanting to support a free independant Armenia. i wish all these gor gor spyurks would stop telling everyone they are anything of Haykakan, they have shown/proven themselves time and time again that they are nothing of Armenian, and secretly discreetly want to see Hayastan fail, that is why they never intervene in cataclismic events in Armenia, they hate Hayastanci so much they want us to tear apart Hayastan so that they hope they can swoop in and take it from us and completely ARABize it once and for all, as that is their ultimate goal and aspirations. my god can you imagine if they had Hayastan today? I am almost assured that arabic would be 1st language in Armenia today
I call upon hayaser to lead the opposition in Armenia. A perfect match.
Hayaser, you are one demented individual. By no means do I or will I ever support the ARF but what you say isn’t against the ARF but against all western Armenians. You claim the real ARF is in Hayastan, that’s bullshit, if the ARF in Iran and Lebanon did not funnel their ill gotten money to Armenia there would not be an ARF in Armenia. As for individuals who are Armenian born in Lebanon, or Syria or other parts of the middle east, WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO QUESTION THEM SAYING THEY ARE NOT ARMENIAN????? If you are so Armenian why are you in Glendale??? I for one am planning my transition to one day move to my homeland of Armenia. ARE YOU????????? Those of us born in the Middle East or as you would like to call us gor gor Armenians did not choose to be the children of Genocide survivors. The governments of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan accepted us, and helped us get back on our feet. All of us have relatives who went to Soviet Armenia in the 1940-1950s only to be called arxp-per. If we wanted Hayastan to Fail why do we do everything in our power to protect it? If your argument is that the ARF doesn’t care about Armenian democracy or cares too much about genocide recognition I would have to agree with you, but I as an Armenian, I as a member of the SD Hunchak party, can not and will not let you get away with these stupid generalization comments. You are one fucked up individual that needs to get your head out of your ass.
@A2
I for one am planning my transition to one day move to my homeland of Armenia. ARE YOU??????
YES I AM, IF I EVER HAVE ANY REAL MONEY AND JOB THERE, I WOULD MOVE IN A HEARTBEAT, UNLIKE YOU GOR GORS WHO STEAL AND SCAM YOUR WAY OF LIFE THRU INSURANCE FRAUDS AND FAKE ROBBERIES AT YOUR BULLSHIT JEWELRY STORES, WE STANCIS ACTUALLY DO WORK FOR A LIVING (EXCL. THOSE CRIMINAL MAFIA CONNECTED FIGURES) WE OWN HALF of GLENDALE, WE MADE GLENDALE INTO A VIBRANT UPBEAT UPPER MIDDLE CLASS CITY THAT EVEN THE OWNER OF AMERICANA DECIDED TO OPEN HIS GROVE LIKE OPEN STYLE SHOPPING PARK IN GLENDALE. IT IS BECAUSE OF US STANCIS THAT GLENDALE-HOLLYWOOD IS EVEN RECONIZED AS LITTLE ARMENIA or LITTLE YEREVAN, YOU GOR GORS HAVE DONE NOTHING TO CONTRIBUTE TO IT. HOWEVER I DONT HAVE RICH THEIVES MOMMIES and DADDIES WILLING TO SEND ME $1K EVERY MONTH LIKE CLOCKWORK TO LIVE IN YEREVAN AND NOT WORK LIKE SOME GOR GOR SPYURK IN PARTICULAR I KNOW ABOUT AND HIS CRONIES, MY LOUSY $5K I HAVE SAVED UP WOULD'NT LAST 1 YEAR IN HAYASTAN
Those of us born in the Middle East or as you would like to call us gor gors did not choose to be the children of Genocide survivors. The govts of lebanon, syria, jordan accepted us, and helped us get back on our feet.
ACTUALLY YOU DESCENDANTS of GENOCIDE SURVIVORS HAVE DECIDED TO BE THOSE DAVAJANS I POST COMMENTS ABOUT EVERY DAY. YOU ARE THOSE DAVAJANS WHO HAVE DECIDED SO DESPERATELY MAKE WORLD BELIEVE THAT TO BE ARMENIAN IS EXACT SAME THING AS BEING SCUM SANDNI**ER CAMEL EYrab THAT YOU GOR GORS ALL LOVE TO BE. YOUR ANCESTORS DID NOT HAVE CHOICE, BUT YOU DESCENDANTS DO, AND YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO PISS ON MY HOMELAND AND ALL OF THIS WHILE STILL REFERING TO YOURSELVES AS SO-CALLED "HAY". I NEVER HEARD A STANCI EVER SAY TO AN OTAR..."I AM HAYASTANCI-ARMENIAN"...AS IF THAT OTAR WOULD KNOW WHAT THAT EVEN REPRESENTS, I NEVER HEARD A STANCI SAY TO OTARS..."I AM ARMENIAN-ARMENIAN" WE SIMPLY SAY..."WE ARE ARMENIAN!"....BUT YOU GOR GORS AND YOUR EYrab LOVING WAYS ALL DESPERATELY SO EFFORTLY WANT TO ALWAYS THROW YOUR ARABNESS IN FRONT of ARMENIANNESS, YOU LOVE TO CLAIM THOSE SANDNI**ER COUNTRIES FROM WHICH YOUR PARENTS/GRANDPARENTS ALL COME FROM, YET NONE of YOU ARE EVEN BORN/RAISED THERE, AT VERY LEAST MAYBE BORN THERE, BUT NOT RAISED THERE. YOU LOVE TO PUT OTHER AZGS IN FRONT of ARMENIAN AZG, YOU PURPOSELY DO NOT PROMOTE ARMENIA, BUT SO DESPERATELY WANT TO PROMOTE and PRAISE MIDDLE EAST. WHY IS IT EVERY GOR GOR SPYURK AT AGE OF 10+ ALL HAVE ASPIRATIONS AND ALWAYS RANT ABOUT WANTING TO GO TO MIDDLE EAST COUNTRIES (SPECIFICALLY BEIRUT) BUT DONT WANT TO GO TO YEREVAN OR IN ARMENIA GENERAL??? THEY DONT WANT TO BECAUSE THEY DONT EVEN KNOW IT EXISTS AND THEIR PARENTS ARE PURPOSELY BRAINWASHING THEM, I TALK FROM EXPERIENCE, WHEN A GOR GOR WHO I USE TO BE CLOSE TO HIS PARENTS ALWAYS RANTING ABOUT BEIRUT MEIRUT and CONSISTANTLY HIS MOTHER KEPT THROWING LEBANON IN FRONT of MY FACE AND TELLING TO HER SON...."TXAS GERTASGOR BEIRUT CHE? MER MAYR QAXAKN E AMENA LAV TEXN E, MER LIBANON@ AMENA LAV YERKIRN E"...NOW WHEN I ONCE DECIDED TO HAVE SOME BALLS AND TELL TO HER THAT..."WE ARE NOT ARAB WE ARE HAY, WHY YOU TRYING TO CONVINCE YOUR SON TO GO TO BEIRUT and NOT YEREVAN?".... HER RESPONSE WAS VIGOROUSLY and SWIFTLY...."WE ARE NOT THOSE KINDS of ARMENIANS, WE ARE LEBANESE, LEBANON IS OUR HOME NOT HAYASTAN"....THAT ALONE SHOWS AND PROVES THAT I AM NEVER WRONG ABOUT ANY of YOU GOR GOR SPYURKS AND THAT INDEED YOU ARE DESPERATE NOT ONLY TO CONVINCE THIS WORLD THAT BEING HAY IS EXACT SAME THING AS BEING arab, BUT THAT YOU DONT WANT US STANCIS TO KNOW TRUTH ABOUT YOU, THAT YOU WANT TO DISCREETLY SPEAK ABOUT THIS SHIT ONLY AMONGST YOURSELVES, BECAUSE LETS FACE IT I NEVER HEARD A GOR GOR DARE SPEAK LIKE THAT IN FRONT of OTHER STANCIS, ONLY BECAUSE I WAS ALONE AND HAD NO OTHER STANCI WITH ME DID SHE FEEL COMFORTABLE TO SPEW OUT SUCH BLASPHEMY AGAINST REAL ARMENIA
@a2
cont...
btw: i had same incident with a polsa and her family too, mother telling in front of me to her daughter that polis molis is their homeland and that if she ever dared to go to Yerevan her family would disown her and be cut off financially and that she is not to befriend or bring home any Hayastanci and that her daughter even confessed to me that her mom went to that so-called Armenian school FERRAHIAN and told their admin staff that if they dared to allow stancis into that school she would convince all parents to remove their children and not give a penny anymore
IT IS YOU GOR GOR SPYURKS WHO ARE RACIST AGAINST US STANCIS, I AM ONLY SPITTING IT BACK OUT TO YOU, DIFFERENCE IS WE STANCIS HAVE BIG BALLS TO DO IT TO YOU, UNLIKE YOU WHO HAVE TO HIDE BEHIND YOUR HOMES AND BULLSHIT SO-CALLED WANNA BE ARMENIAN PARTIES. I WONDER WHY AT EVERY GOR GOR SPYURK PARTY DO THEY DEMAND TO THEIR SINGERS TO SING ARAB and turGAY SONGS. YOU'LL NEVER HEAR OUR ARMENCHIK, TATA, ARAM or HIS ENTIRE FAMILY, NUNE, SOFI, SYLVA, or EVEN OUR PRECIOUS SIRUSHIK DARE TO SING arab or turGAY SONGS AT THEIR PARTIES/CONCERTS, NOT EVEN SPITAKCI HAYKO WOULD DARE DO IT AND HE IS RABIZ MORE THAN ANYONE
OH AND WHEN SIRUSHIK WENT TO YOUR BEIRUT MEIRUT AND DID CONCERT WITH HER MOTHER, ALL THOSE SPYURKS WAS ANGRY AND SPEAKING NEGATIVELY ABOUT HER BEHIND HER BACK BECAUSE SHE AND HER MOM DID NOT SING "ARABIC" SONGS FOR THEM. ohh exuse us stancis for not being "EYrab" like you gor gor spyurks, we have our own identity...it is "ARMENIAN ONLY" identity
btw: while we stancis have created an Armenia and pop culture and put our stars into Eurovision and created television shows not only in Hayastan but in LA, what are you gor gor spyurks doing?? where is your POP culture?? where is your ENTERTAINERS??? WHO IN EUROPE KNOWS ABOUT karnik marnik? paul maul? sahag mahag?? you gor gors demanding to HorizonTV in LA to cease and desist all stanci shows and revert back to early 90's programming which was...well very much nothing but promoting ARABrf and beirut meirut and karnik marnik and paul maul. it is us stancis who is REAL Armenians, it is us stancis who have built Armenia with our hands while you gor gor spyurks have been living it up wealthy and so luxuriously in your granda hills/northridge homes and using "Armenian church" as a bullshit way to supposedly make yourselves "feel" more Armenian, and dont think sending few hundred dollars here and there every year to KOCHARYAN/SARGSYAN controlled HIMNAdram (aka:SCAMdram) that it makes you "more" Armenian in front of public and that it makes us stancis see more positively in all of you, because truth be told IT DONT DO A SHIT FOR YOU OR US. YOU ONLY MADE OUR CRIMINAL BANDITocraciies WEALTHY WHILE REST of COUNTRY SUFFERS IN POVERTY STRUGGLING TO MAKE ENDS MEET AND FEED OUR CHILDREN
@a2
cont(part 3)...
and while stancis are in streets of Yerevan and here in LA in front of Armenian embassy protesting demanding a FREE JUSTIFIED ARMENIAN HOMELAND, where are you gor gors? oh you watch it from your nice luxury homes on your $5k plasma masma tv's? i dont see gor gors getting up off their turGAY murGAY beirut meirut arab marab PARAP ass's flying to Hayastan and joing my ppl. at very least it is you gor gors who are more successful than any stanci and you all have had power and money to intervene and help Hayastan, BUT YOU REFUSE TO DO IT. that shows to a stanci such as me (and many others like me who are afraid to speak out) that you are indeed 100%against Hayastan/Hayastancis,
thats why your ANCA (aka: JEWnca) never made a PEEP about March 1st, thinking that releasing a bullshit statment is their way of showing concern. your JEWnca never went public about why JEWmerican mainstream media so willfully airs about riots/unrest in other countries but never about Hayastan. on ABC world news, NBC nightly, CBS nightly news, CNN, FOX I did'nt see/hear one word about March 1st and our corrupt elections and you gor gors are in control of this JEWnca and not one outrage from this anti-Hayastan org. you outrage about genocide 24/7 and cutting aid to Armenia, but you dont outrage about REAL Armenia issues. it goes to show that you gor gors only care for yourselves and demand for us stancis to back you but you dont dare back us. i hope JEWnca does'nt collect any money on Sunday and fails in all of its battles, because you will never win against zionism and their turGAYs that they bow down to so much. your fight for AG rec is a joke and its a farce to keep Armenians eyes away from Hayastan, to show how powerful/influential JEWnca is....if JEWnca gave up their bullshit fight for AG rec and decided to concentrate on making Hayastan a 1st world class nation and go up against this PUTIN controlled regime, all gor gor spyurks who bow down to JEWnca would follow suit and Armenia would be a very strong powerful nation in less than 5 years time from the day JEWnca decides to do it, but since JEWnca is so anti-Hayastan/Hayastanci that wont ever happen...pff there is not even Hayastancis in JEWnca that shows how much JEWnca (controlled by ARABrf) is "ANTI-HAYASTANCI" and is "100% PRO-GOR GOR ONLY"
note: had to use my friends email dunas2006 to post part 3 because of some bs google issue, he is not part of this blog or this debate/attack
Hayaser, again YOU ARE ONE MENTALLY FUCKED UP INDEVIDUAL. I have never said a damn thing against Armenians from Armenia, nor will I. Not because as you say I am scared but I am smart enough to differentiate between individual behavior and not generalize towards a group of people. Plus I don’t equate you with them, YOU ARE JUST ONE DEMENTED PERSON WITH YOUR HEAD STUCK UP YOUR ASS. You have a qualm with the ARF/ANC, GOOD SO DO I!!! You don’t like ARF tactics, GOOD NEITHER DO I. YOU DUMN FUCK, I WAS AT ALL THOSE PROTEST YOU TALK ABOUT!!! GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND STOP GENERALIZING ALL ARMENIANS!!!! You stupid hypocrite, did you want us to be carrying a Lebanese flag for you to realize western Armenians were there too!!! I am starting to question if you are even sincere in your post, or are you just a FUCKING kid trying to stir shit up without knowing what you are talking about. Either way YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON!!!!
I think Pashinyan has been reincarnated as this hayaser character.
I am with out a doubt very genuinely sincere in my posts, and every post before it and after it including this one as well.
and you gor gor spyurks already wave your SANDNI**ERese flags that you all love so much. wonder why all these gor gor spyurks listen to GAYrabic music and dance habibi all the time, because they are brainwashed by their parents/grand-parents to do so, that "ARAB" marab parap life is placed upon them in their genes, and unfortunately this is an unbreakable cycle of gene pool. once you go gor gor, there is no turning back. that is why i refuse to sell out my homeland and my real Hayutyun to you gor gors as i've noticed some stancis have done so and it seems to be spreading like wildfires
dont generalize against other Armenians? but you gor gor spyurks are not Armenian for me to be generalizing against. so in that aspect i am not a racist against my own ppl because you gor gors ARE NOT MY PPL. MY PPL ARE THOSE WHO ARE GENUINELY ARMENIAN, GENUINELY HAYASERS, GENUINELY LOVING TO BE HAYKAKAN ONLY. sure there are many stancis in LA who have to be typical Californians, speak english and act all like..."omg i am so hot and rich"...but in the end 9 out of 10 of them their loyalty and devotion is to Hayastan and iskakan Hayutyun
same goes for other stancis spread out in europe where ever else they are.
i am not about ARF MAYrf or h'nchak m'nchak i am not about political parties, i piss on all politics and relgions as well. i am for promoting and MORE IMPORTANTLY "PRESERVING" Hayastan and her iskakan Hayutyun, i will not tolerate gor gor davajan spyurks who desperately want to diminish iskakan Hayutyun into some habibi mabibi arab marab parap oglu mogly gla gor mla mor identity and make their SHITanon homeland as their so-called "NOR HAYASTAN"
us stancis must unite to fight off you gor gor spyurks, the biggest threat to our Hayutyun is not external enemies such azerGAY mazerGAYS and their master turGAY murGAYS that they bow down to, our biggest threat is INTERNAL enemies who want to see Armenia fail, those "internal enemies" are in Hayastan, but more or less also they are gor gor davajan spyurks who use this JEWnca telethon of theirs (happening now as i typed this) as their way of trying to fool those Hays (whether stanci or others) that they and their ARABrf masters actually care for "REAL Hayastan" issues when in fact its their secret discreet way of trying to keep those Hayasers who care for Hayastan away from Hayastan and away from this mafia criminalistic element regime. also JEWnca wants to collect money from everyone to further success of those gor gor spyurks who bow down to them and join in their sadistic anti-Hayastanci program. notice how JEWnca has maybe 1-5 Hayastancis in their entire org, vs. 100's and 1000's of gor gor spyurks. why does this JEWnca/ARABrf not welcome Haysatancis? why do they stay clear of all stancis? why is it when 3 stancis I know personally who tried to join were declined and completely shoned by this org, no call backs, no responses, not even a response to their plea that they wanted to fly from LA to DC to join this shit ass loser org to help protest in front of turGAY embassay and this org did not respond, completely ignored them both in LA office and DC office, but when 10 gor gor spyurks in GAY-yf wanted to fly out from LA to DC this shit ass org was all over it, and paid for them to fly out, put them in nice apt and fed them and smothered them with love and attention
bottom line for all my rants is...
GOR GOR SPYURKS ARE MORE OF A THREAT TO HAYASTAN/HAYUTYUN, THAN JEWtp, PASHIN MASHINYAN, ROBIK MOBIK AND HIS ASS LICKIN SERJIK PERJIK BITCH ALL COMBINED
this gor gor rage for 24/7 genocide revenge has RUINED MY HOMELAND. i never fight those fights that i know i cant win or make a dent, but i see a fight to 'ATTACK' those internal elements who allow Hayastan to be ravaged by criminalistic ones, so if that means i have to attack all gor gor spyurks than so be it, i know for fact many stancis are like minded and want to attack all of you gor gors as well, only issue they have is they are more occupied with making money and desperately trying to take care of their homeland thru means of sending money to their friends/relatives who have remained there rather than fight you gor gors, fortunately for me i dont have anyone to personally send money to, so i give to tufenkyan foundation and COAF and ACTforArmenia, therefore i have alot of time to attack what other stancis can not
I know from experience that Arevmtahays, Parskahays, and Hayastantsis make good friends, for life.
This guy calling himself "Real Armenian," the fellow who expresses his hysteria through all-caps, is trying to drive a wedge between Armenians, and for that reason alone he has earned his clockwise flush down my toilet, even as he enjoys his counter-clockwise journey home halfway across the world.
Haha -- Eurovision. Yes, "you" have put "Armenian culture" on the map, indeed.
I am Western Armenian. I use Arabic and Turkish in my Armenian (like Hayastantsis use Azeri, Persian or Russian) and I won't ever apologize for it. People like Hayaser don't really get to decide whether I'm Armenian or not (I can just as easily say that he isn't Armenian). But since the Internet gives a podium to everyone, he feels comfortable spewing his racism (notice how he despises every group except his narrow definition of "Hays" -- no wonder so many people hate his kind!).
Yes, us "gor gors" will continue to strive for genocide recognition. You can continue destroying what is left of "Armenia," or incessantly bitch about it (yet without bringing anything new/constructive to the table) and alienate us "gor gors," Hayaser.
While the purpose of this blog is multifactorial, it in no way is meant to be a platform for the hateful writing which I have seen and continue to see despite multiple warnings.
To try to end this, I am enabling comment moderation. I had hoped to allow free conversation, but what I see here from certain individuals is not conversation or discussion, it is hatred spewed.
I invite all opinions, all points of view. However, they must be expressed respectfully.
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